The thoughts of RAWK on the current situation:
Here are some questions I asked to some of the moderators of RAWK about the current situation, and their replies.
They say a week is a long time in politics, at Liverpool it’s an era, these were asked two days ago and already things have moved on; all the same its interesting to see how we feel.
The answers were given by MichaelA (MA), Armin(A), AlanF(AF), SteveM(SM) and myself, Hinesy(H).
1. Do you think if the Yanks sell to DIC, that would be a good thing, or a case of out of the frying pan…
SM: Who knows? I said at the start that once Moores let go, then we are in the realms of money men, not football men and are open to the elements. They could be great for us - they could be a disaster. MU fans may hate the Glazers, but (although prices have sharply increased and they have introduced a few other shitty measures), they have backed their manager 100% and provided the funds when required.
MA:DIC have much more money. The cowboys are making good money from their sport franchises, and we’re another revenue stream in their business model. I got the sense that DIC were always more about kudos and success, and building a global sports brand that just happens to make a mint for them, even though they’re already minted. So in that sense, I’d rather be the plaything of a rich man than the toothpaste tube that was being squeezed dry by a less rich man. I think the club would be better off in those circumstances too..
A:Yes on both counts. They were always a better choice than the Americans who barely had enough liquidity even after Hicks came on board considering the financial input required. Dubai has access to monies unaffected by the credit crunch, they need to invest now and the fundamental business model is excellent. Potential earnings once new distribution is fully achieved are stratospheric.
DIC also have a desire to project a global, prestige interest and there’s the possibility that they would’ve seen LFC as a way to augment this. So although ran as a business they may have splashed out every so often as a way of promoting the brand of Dubai.
They’re still businesspeople and not fans, we’ll never have a benefactor in the Moores style again but if we had to sell out then Parry and Moores should never have reneged on their deal, it was bad faith and I don’t believe DIC will come riding to the rescue but if they did it would be better than the current mob.
AF:
I don’t think things will ever be the same again. I had reservations about DIC at the time - Al-Ansari would not be spending his own money but investing Dubai’s money. If he could juggle the needs of DIC as an investment fund with his own personal ambitions we could sail along happily for a while. There would be no stability though. A change at the top of DIC (not unlikely in the near future and highly probable in the mid-term) would leave us in the hands of an investment company who have no interest in the footballing side of things. The Sheikh himself has no interest in football as far as I am aware.
H:yes we are heading in to the fire but I’d rather the heat of the desert than being a Texan BBQ plaything. I’m even more wary of any new investor and for all the slings and arrows aimed at him, Abramovich seems to be a unique force these days…
2. Hicks’ points are basically good sense.. if Rafa was talking about leaving surely they should’ve looked for a replacement in case… yes or no?
SM: Technically yes. I don’t doubt all clubs line up their next manager in advance. We were speaking to Mourinho and Rafa before Houllier got the bullet. However Rafa has not mentioned leaving and there is no indication since Schuster went to Madrid that they want to change again. However it shows their lack of PR awareness in the UK football market when they openly admit they have been looking for a replacement. No-one in their right mind does this - this says to Rafa and all the players that Rafa’s days are numbered. How much damage does that do to morale in the team? Even Klinsmann himself knew not to mention any approaches from other clubs when doing his press conferences at Bayern. Their dealings with the media are poor.
MA:Yes, and yes. But if he wanted to share it with the world he should do it via an anonymous username on an internet forum, not by briefing the international press; that’s just dumb.
A:They took over a club that was at a certain stage with a manager, 2 years in and a very promising 2 years at that. The cycle needed to be respected, they weren’t buying a club in crisis but a 2 in 3 years CL finalist. They began the process of undermining him. Looking for contingency is one thing, using it as a blunderbuss battering ram mid season another.
AF:I don’t believe he was talking about leaving. Maybe those in the know can enlighten me but in all the rumour and inuendo the one constant is that Rafa loves it here and sees it (or saw it) as a long term thing. The choice of Klinsmann as their potential replacement is damning. They should have sacked Rafa at the start of the season or waited to the end. If we were in the relegation zone then maybe panic but at the time we were well in the hunt for the league and in the middle of our best form of the season.
H: As I said in some thread I think what Hicks did wasn’t a bad idea, but to announce it when previously he had been so conspicuously silent on support for the incumbent manager smacks of foolish pr at best and vindictive snidy undermining otherwise.
3. How do you feel they are damaging the club?
SM:To put it bluntly, they are making us a laughing stock and looking like a bunch of amateurs. Rafa is beginning to look like Ranieri inhis last year.
MA:They seem to me to be out of their depth, and rather than trying to tread water and come to terms with their predicament they’re just yelling ‘help’ like a pair of pussies. They’re making themselves look naive and small time, and after years of quiet circumspection from David Moores, the club is tarnished by the association with the hick Hicks. They’ve built a house of cards on Merseyside, and they’re in danger of doing irrepairable damage to the club. I’d always naively assumed that LFC would always be above the petty board room spats and the idiotic chairmen who can’t help but open their mouths to fit in their feet. To see these two idiots bring down the curtain on that is despairing; it’s clearly affecting everyone at the club from the manager downward, it’s affecting the people in the stand and it’s affecting the players on the pitch - it’s unforgivably amateurish.
A:Where to start? They’ve mistaken rhetoric and PR for effective corporate governance. Latterly they’ve even lost their grip on that. The 50/50 split between owners is the Evans Houllier nonsense revisited, except a thousand times worse. Now every disagreement between them is conducted on the other side of the Atlantic whilst the club drifts in limbo. They speak when they shouldn’t and remain silent when they need to speak. Hicks has been to the G W Bush school of diplomacy and his casual laughing dismissal of supporter concerns is a slap in the face to people who have spent their lifetimes following a club with a history, heritage and immersion in its community that few sporting clubs in the world can match.
I could go on for ever on this one so I’ll leave it at that
AF:How long do you want it to be. In addition to everything else I have a huge problem with Hicks and the stadium. Some put it forward as the one thing they got right. For me it’s the perfect example of what is wrong. We had a stadium that had planning approval and was due to start on site. There were probably some modifiications that could be made but it was a 60,000 stadium that would put us on a par with the other top clubs. What was proposed by HKS was not what the club needed. My greatest hope is that they leave before they can start work on it.
H:For me the main thing is that they have pissed away years of reputation and sense of the Liverpool way. Even if we’re kidding ourselves that any ‘Way’ may have gone with the Boot Room, Liverpool were percieved as a club who knew how to do things. I had a lot of time for Parry until the ticket debacle, and over the last year or so, we’ve looked like a comedy act. Apart from the that, I do think the club’s progress has been put on ice, which these days is the same as backwards movement. By some time too.
4. We all got pissed off with Rafa recently, but I think he still has our support, or does anyone here think the Yanks should get someone else in?
SM:My philosophy is that I will always support whoever is out there on that pitch and whoever is in charge at the time. In saying that, players and managers come and go and Rafa will go not doubt. Whether he is pushed or quits is another matter. My priority has always been the League title and that has never changed. With the way Rafa sets out his team and uses the whole squad, I honestly don’t think he will have a chance of winning the title, this season or any other unless he is allowed to buy another 3-4 top players and therefore can minimise screw ups like at Reading, etc. Part of the reason that I’m not losing sleep over this is that we are behind the other 3 sides in more ways than one and therefore until that is sorted, I’m not convinced much will change on the title front, no matter who is manager.
MA:They haven’t got a fucking clue who to bring in. And neither have any of us. I want to win number nineteen. Can Rafa do that? I’m not convinced, to be honest, but he’s being hindered by outside forces, so I think he deserves full backing to achieve our ambitions.
A:He has my support, whilst I understand those who have doubts I don’t honestly look round at the league and think, I wish we had x. Only Wenger could perhaps have done more with the same resources and even he has had a long time to embed his style of play and is trophyless for a couple of seasons as well.
AF:The yanks shouldn’t be allowed to select the tea lady let alone a new manager. Yes I still support Rafa till the end of the season at least. It’s impossible to judge Rafa now. I have no doubt that the triple substitution at Reading was a result of the pressure Rafa is under. I no longer have any expectation for this year but changing now would also be pointless. For me it’s moved beyond Rafa now. He has gone and the fight moves on to the owners.
Jesus, a manager that can take a club that in previous seasons was described as an “underacheiver” and outside the “big three” European Cup success and then prove it wasn’t a fluke by getting to another final two years later… who has re-established the club in the “big four…” yes he deserves my support. If the takeover was meant to take us to another level, to provide that investment that would allow us to compete with Chelsea and United - then 2007/8 should have been “season zero” a new start and a new hope.
H:The short term frustration with the seeming lack of effort, the odd selections and lack of progress is nothing compared to the fucking up of our club by two idiots. On the pitch Rafa may continue to delight and frustrate in equal measures but would get my support. Off it, he has been treated very very badly indeed and by any rights, I wouldn’t blame him if you told them to stick it.
5. Should they sell up?
SM:If they can’t provide the funds they claim they had, then get the hell out. So far they are been a waste of space. Stadium plans no further on and I don’t see any money being given to Rafa than wouldn’t have been provided by Moores.
MA:Unequivocally yes.
A:Yes, I believe they should. If there truly is a quick cash in available we should encourage them to take it. They’ve clearly bitten off more than they can chew. From a busines point of view, given sufficient real investment now there’s no doubt that LFC can stake a place at the forefront of a new explosion in UK football as income from overseas sales skyrockets. If we’re cash poor and hamstrung by debt then we’ll lose ground at a critical time.
From my perspective as a supporter I don’t trust them, hate the thought of them in control of my club and want them gone yesterday.
AF:Yes. I’m sick that I gave them the benefit of the doubt at the time they bade a bid. maybe naively, I still think Gillett understood what was required but if he can’t rein Hicks in then they should both go.
H:.I would’ve said no, not til the end of the season but I get a feeling something has to go, and it should be them.